The Saints Amongst Us All

The following email was originally posted on August 16, 2018


Michael,

The internet can be a wonderful tool ... and educational as well.  Taking up your challenge, this is what I found just this morning about the decanonization of saints

https://abcnews.go.com/International/saint-saint-kind-demoted/story?id=23477573

and this article shows how, in the 21st century, the canonization process has indeed changed

http://theconversation.com/who-becomes-a-saint-in-the-catholic-church-and-is-that-changing-81011

And so, Michael, it does appear to beg the question as to whether, over time, certain saints may be decanonized because the process for their selection may have been flawed.

Any thoughts?

Peace,

Everett "Skip" Jenkins
Class of 1975

P.S. Also, please note that from a Protestant perspective, the notion of saints has become broader to where all who call themselves "Christian" may be considered to be a saint



and for those of us who have a universalist perspective, all spiritually sentient beings irrespective of their religious affiliation should be viewed as potential saints.  Thus, even someone who lives in the remote regions of Papua New Guinea who has never seen a priest (and never will) is, in my mind, capable of sainthood.  Amazing what one sees when everyone is viewed as a potential saint.

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From: Michael

Sent: Wed, Aug 15, 2018 7:40 pm
Subject: The Beatification and Canonization of Pope John Paul II

And I am hoping that you will take some responsibility for making a suggestion totally unencumbered with any understanding of beatification and canonization.  Perhaps the best thing for you to do is to take back the thought that maybe the canonization should be rescinded, and promise that you will actually take it upon yourself to acquaint your self with the declaration of sainthood.

I can't and won't do your work for you.

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On August 15, 2018 at 7:00 PM skipjen2865@aol.com wrote:

Michael,

I was hoping that you might provide a defense for the canonization of John Paul II.  He was, after all, the second longest tenured pope in history and probably the most significant religious leader of our lifetime.  I also thought that perhaps you would provide an enunciation of the process that is involved in becoming a saint including the verification of the required "miracles" associated with the beatified individual.  Also, maybe a discussion of why just because something "has never, ever, been done before" that it could not be done now.  After all, this is the 21st century and Pope Francis appears to be a slightly different pope.  Why cannot something be done, if it is to correct a wrong?  That is if the canonization was "a wrong"?

There is much to write about.  Elevate and, in the process, maybe enlighten us all.

Peace,

Everett "Skip" Jenkins
Class of 1975

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From: Michael

Sent: Wed, Aug 15, 2018 3:35 pm
Subject: The Beatification and Canonization of Pope John Paul II

You are ignoring the point -- the substantive standards matter far more than the time period.  And I never said that the process was "extraordinary."   Please reread my post. 

I don't have the time to teach you something you should have researched yourself before you decided to make a judgment about rescinding or revoking a canonization -- something, I repeat, that has never, ever, been done before. 

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On August 15, 2018 at 2:36 PM Skip Jenkins

Michael,

Again you appear to be more knowledgeable on this matter than I am.  Perhaps you can tell us more about the process and the time frame associated with it and explain why, based upon your knowledge of the process, the beatification and canonization of John Paul II was not extraordinary.  This could prove beneficial to ameliorate our perception of Saint John Paul ... especially as we discover more about the magnitude of the scandal that is.

Peace,

Everett "Skip" Jenkins
Class of 1975

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-----Original Message-----
From: Michael

Sent: Wed, Aug 15, 2018 3:05 am
Subject: The Beatification and Canonization of Pope John Paul II

How do you know that the time, in this case, was not adequate.  Again, musing, without paying attention  to the substantive elements of beautification and canonization, is not helpful. 

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On August 14, 2018 at 7:51 PM Skip Jenkins

Michael,

You undoubtedly do know more about the process than I do.  However, what troubles me is that for Pope John Paul II, the canonization process appears to have been expedited.  See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II

By expediting the process, the measure of the man through the lens of time may not have been done.  Is it possible that the Church process was fallible in expediting the process before adequate time had passed?

Peace,

Everett "Skip" Jenkins
Class of 1975

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From: Michael

Sent: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 4:22 pm
Subject: The Beatification and Canonization of Pope John Paul II

We don't rescind sainthood.  Never have, never will.  The process of declaring someone to be a saint in the Church is pretty thorough and rigorous, to put it mildly. 
Perhaps, more importantly, saints are not perfect. 
One example will do.  All sorts of Christians refer to Paul, the author of numerous epistles, the founder of Christian communities throughout Greece and Asia Minor, also who was a Pope, as Saint Paul.
Do recall that the New Testament makes it clear that Paul (when he was Saul of Tarsus) persecuted Christians left and right, some of who undoubtedly died thanks to his efforts, that he held the cloaks of those who stoned Stephen to death, making Paul, in some sense a co-conspirator in a murder. 
Well I could go on, but hopefully everybody gets the point.  
It would be helpful, not merely to idly ruminate, but to do some hard work and research on sainthood.  

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On August 14, 2018 at 6:44 PM Skip Jenkins


The story that most appalled me today was the report emanating from Pennsylvania that identifies more than 1000 victims of Catholic priest abuse committed by some 300 priests

https://abc11.com/religion/report-identifies-more-than-1000-child-victims-of-catholic-priest-abuse/3957556/

This story is particularly appalling because it could have been prevented if action had been taken earlier


I wonder, given these revelations, and the increased social awareness of such issues during the #MeToo era, should the beatification and canonization for Pope John Paul II be rescinded?  Can one still be considered a saint when so much damage to children occurred during one's stewardship over the church?

I wonder.

Peace,

Everett "Skip" Jenkins
Class of 1975

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